MadMode

Dan Connolly's tinkering lab notebook

RDF Calendar, GRDDL, Microformats, and all that at XML2005 in Atlanta

My talk was:

  • @ 2:45 on Weds : Semantic Web Calendaring: RDF Calendar, hCalendar, and GRDDL

      <div class="description">
        <p>I spent a lot of time preparing my slides,
        <cite><a href="http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/mash/slides">Semantic
        Web Data Integration with hCalendar and GRDDL</a></cite>,
        but at show-time, there were still too many. I had to
        basically skip over the cool OWL DL consistency checking
        example that I spent the better part of two days putting
        together, but I'm OK with that; the more basic points were
        more important.</p>
      </div>
    </li>
    

I unfortunately didn't leave any time for questions, but I had some interesting follow-up conversations:

  • Somebody asked about using GRDDL and RDF to track relationships between specs, products that support them, and all that. I recalled that when the folks that run the OASIS standards registry contacted W3C, we told them we prefer a more decentralized approach: each organization publishes stuff about their own standards, in RDF, and anybody can aggregate it. TimBL's roadmap diagrams show one approach. It is somewhat bit-rotten, but we have an automated system in production for publishing basic title/author/date/version metadata about our specs and we're adding more stuff over time; e.g. which WG produced the spec (for patent policy reasons), comment due dates, etc. I told him this had come up in spec-prod; while I'm happy for the discussion to go there, my impression that it had come up there before was wrong. I hope to organize my thoughts on this near NormativeReferences in the QA/ESW wiki and re-kindle discussion in spec-prod or qa-ig.
  • <li>At lunch, somebody brought up my slide about email headers
    in RDF and asked if thunderbird has RDF support like mozilla
    and firefox. <em class="vtodo">I don't know, but I hope to find
    out. DanBri? Anyone?</em></li>
    

On the non-technical front, jamming with Len Bullard was a blast. We had a fascinating discussion of DRM and the recording industry where I relayed AaronSw's viewpoint that any model based on scarcity is uninteresting. Len says Prince is no longer independent, which contradicts the impression I got from studying Prince in Wikipedia recently. Len says the big customer ripie for SemWeb technology is transit, at least as much as intelligence. Gotta look into that.

Later in the evening Len brought out a fake book and Tony and Lauren and Eve and John sang and I tried to accompany them on Len's guitar. I was having so much fun that I raised a sizeable blood-blister on my strumming hand before I noticed. I think we did OK with Annie's Song as well as mangling lots of Beatles and such.

Then Len took the guitar and Eve asked him to play Angel from Montgomery by Bonnie Raitt. When he said he didn't know it, I was able to use my sidekick to find chords and lyrics and since it was your basic three chord number, he picked it up in no time.

As to the conference program...

Tue 15 Nov

<ul>
  <li class="vevent" id="tu_">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T09:00-0500">09:00</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T09:45-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday">Opening
    Keynote: From Atoms to OWLs the new ecology of the Semantic
    Web</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>Jonathan Robie said Jim made 5 or 6 points in this
      talk that had been obscure, at best, in earlier talks on
      the Semantic Web in RDF. <a href=
      "http://www.understandingxml.com/archives/2005/11/keynote_from_at.html">
      Kurt Cagle's notes</a> don't seem to show them.</p>

      <p>Unfortunately, the DAWG teleconference started at 9:30
      and missing it would have delayed the WG by several
      weeks, so I ducked out.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" id="tu_8">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T11:45-0500">11:45</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T12:30-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#8">Handling
    Math in Real-World Workflows: Practical Lessons</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>What jumped out at me was that <b>primary school
      publishers are hot on MathML content markup for reasons
      of accessibility</b>. It's good to hear that the theory
      that higher levels of semantic abstraction contribute to
      accessability plays out in practice.</p>

      <p>I asked if XSL-FO was on the map in this world of
      production math workflows, but he said no, not
      really.</p>

      <p>I wanted to ask <q>what would you change about mathml
      if you had a time machine?</q> but didn't find the right
      moment.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T14:00-0500">14:00</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T14:45-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_10" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#10" name=
    "tu_10">Modeling Methods and Artifacts for Crossing the
    Data/Document Divide</a>

    <div class="description">
      <div style=
      "float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;">
        <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/64285676/"
        title="photo sharing"><img src=
        "http://static.flickr.com/35/64285676_60d48518d7_m.jpg"
        alt="" style="border: solid 2px #000000;" /></a><br />
        <span style=
        "font-size: 0.9em; margin-top: 0px;"><a href=
        "http://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/64285676/">KlaasBals
        XML 2005 - 9</a><br />
        Originally uploaded by <a href=
        "http://www.flickr.com/people/roland/">roland</a>.</span>
      </div>

      <p>He had this great slide (5 of 37) showing that
      business data goes from narrative documents (catalogs) to
      transaction data (orders) and back to narrative (support
      docs) and that data models need to cross them.</p>

      <p>An HL7 person asked <q>how important is it to trace
      back from document to data model?</q> which prompted me
      to add <a href=
      "http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/mash/slides#(18)">a
      slide</a> to my talk to make the point about how GRDDL
      lets you get from narrative documents back to UML-like
      models.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T14:00-0500">14:00</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T14:45-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_9" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#9" name=
    "tu_9">Federated Identity Management: An Overview of
    Concepts and Standards</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>I really wanted to get this overview from Eve, but I
      got caught in a hallway conversation or something and
      missed it. I picked up some of how Liberty works from the
      next talk. ID-FF looks an awful lot like OpenID. I wonder
      what's the difference.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T14:45-0500">14:45</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T15:30-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_13" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#13" name=
    "tu_13">Liberty Federation Deployment Case Study</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>This showed real-world deployment of federated
      identity services remarkably like the ones we discuss in
      the <a href="http://www.policyawareweb.org/">PAW
      project</a>. I asked a lot of questions about the
      details, and the answers were quite reasonable.
      Afterward, I said to Eve and Yvonne, <q>Would you slow
      down? We're trying to pitch many of these ideas to
      research funders. If you deploy them all in commercial
      settings, where will we be? ;-)</q></p>

      <p>At some point, she mentioned government rules where
      authorization data was considered sensitive but
      authentication data was not. <em class="vtodo">I hope to
      get more details about that.</em></p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T14:45-0500">14:45</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T15:30-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_lb4" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#lb4" name=
    "tu_lb4">Microsoft's Language Integrated Query and XML</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>I heard this was a great talk; both the content and
      the presentation. <em class="vtodo">I hope to get notes
      from Norm, Michael, and others who were there.</em></p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T16:00-0500">16:00</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T16:45-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_20" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#20" name=
    "tu_20">The Atom Publishing Protocol: Publishing Web
    Content with XML and HTTP</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>Most of the <a href=
      "http://bitworking.org/projects/XML2005/presentation/atom-publishing-protocol.html">
      stuff he presented</a> looked familiar; looks like not
      much has changed since the last time I saw Joe give a
      talk on the Atom protocol. He mentioned <q>great article
      by Udell on URIs</q>... ah... <cite><a href=
      "http://www.byte.com/tangled/">Tangled in the
      threads</a></cite> seems to be a column that Udell used
      to write for Byte. <em class="vtodo">Anybody got a
      pointer to the article Joe was talking about? I'd like to
      cite it among the <a href=
      "http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/em27">TAG educational
      materials</a></em>.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-15T16:45-0500">16:45</abbr><abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-15T17:30-0500">.</abbr><a class=
    "summary url" id="tu_24" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#24" name=
    "tu_24">Remixing RSS - past, present and future</a>

    <p class="description">An interesting perspective of the
    development of blogging. At their booth, I discovered
    bryght is a big drupal shop. I asked them about in-browser
    <a href=
    "http://esw.w3.org/topic/ImmersiveHypertextEditing">direct-manipulation
    editing</a>; they're big on <a href=
    "http://drupal.org/project/tinymce">TinyMCE</a>.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr><abbr class=
    "dtstart" title="2005-11-15T16:00-0500">16:00</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtend" title=
    "2005-11-15T16:45-0500">.</abbr><a class="summary url" id=
    "tu_18" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/tuesday#18" name=
    "tu_18">Names, Namespaces, XML Languages and XML Definition
    Languages</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p>I think Henry alluded to this paper in <a href=
      "http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/22-tagmem-minutes.html#item02">
      a TAG discussion of XMLVersioning-41 in Edinburgh</a>. I
      was looking forward to getting it presented
      conference-style, but I guess I can read the paper and
      discuss it in the TAG.</p>
    </div>
  </li>
</ul>

Wed 16 Nov

<ul>
  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-16T11:45-0500">11:45</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-16T12:30-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="we_5" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/wednesday#5" name=
    "we_5">On Language Creation</a>

    <p class="description">missed this in the panic of
    preparing for my talk. Darn.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-16T11:45-0500">11:45</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-16T12:30-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="we_8" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/wednesday#8" name=
    "we_8">Native XML Scripting with ECMAScript for XML
    (E4X)</a>

    <p class="description">missed this in the panic of
    preparing for my talk. Darn.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent"><abbr class="status" title=
  "CONFIRMED">@</abbr> <abbr class="dtstart" title=
  "2005-11-16T14:00-0500">14:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
  title="2005-11-16T14:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class="summary url"
  id="we_lb3" href=
  "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/wednesday#lb3" name=
  "we_lb3">XSL Transform Self-Documentation</a></li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-16T16:00-0500">16:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-16T16:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="we_lb5" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/wednesday#lb5" name=
    "we_lb5">XML, REST, and SOAP at Yahoo</a>

    <p class="description">Wanted to follow up on the <a href=
    "http://www.parand.com/say/index.php/2005/10/13/speaking-at-xml-conf-2005-nov-16th/#comments">
    conversation we started briefly in his blog</a> but it was
    scheduled against a SPARQL session. Had to settle for a
    brief hand-shake and card exchange.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-16T16:00-0500">16:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-16T16:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="we_19" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/wednesday#19" name=
    "we_19">SQL, XQuery, and SPARQL: What's wrong with this
    picture?</a>

    <p class="description">What looked like a SPARQL-bashing
    session turned into a pretty good SPARQL tutorial. Jim
    Melton, who has been doing SQL standards work for over 20
    years and sharing that experience in the XQuery WG for
    several years, took a close look at SPARQL, prompted by
    some nifty results by some folks using RDF/OWL in drug
    discovery. Even though he was "strongly encouraged" to
    conclude that SPARQL was obviated by SQL and XQuery, his
    conclusion was that it has a place.</p>
  </li>
</ul>

Thu 17 Nov

<ul>
  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T09:00-0500">09:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T09:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_lb1" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#lb1" name=
    "th_lb1">Describing Web Applications</a>

    <p>missed the talk but spent some time noodling on <a href=
    "http://esw.w3.org/topic/WebDescriptionProposals">WebDescriptionProposals
    in the ESW wiki</a>. <em class="vtodo">I hope to study WADL
    more closely.</em></p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0"><abbr class=
  "status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr> <abbr class="dtstart"
  title="2005-11-17T09:00-0500">09:00</abbr> <abbr class=
  "dtend" title="2005-11-17T09:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
  "summary url" id="th_3" href=
  "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#3" name=
  "th_3">Semantics and Security: Applying RDF and OWL to
  Defense and Security Challenges</a></li>

  <li class="vevent" style="background: #e0e0e0">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T11:00-0500">11:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T11:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_12" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#12" name=
    "th_12">The Impact of XML on Contract Law and the Volume of
    Contract Litigation</a>

    <p class="description">I didn't get to see Jane Winn's talk
    (though it won an award and <em class="vtodo">I look
    forward to reading the paper</em>), but after Bob G.
    introduce me to her in the exhibit hall, we had a
    fascinating discussion of the social side of open source
    and open standards. There's some seminal paper on
    charismaric leadership that she's supposed to be sending
    me. I asked for a pointer, but it seems to come from the
    pre-Web world of paper and fax machines.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T11:00-0500">11:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T11:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_9" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#9" name=
    "th_9">Unit Testing in XSLT 2.0</a>

    <p class="description">Some comments on XSLT 1.0 were
    pushed back a la <q>but wer're just doing a transformation
    language for stylesheets, not a general-purpose programming
    language.</q> Maybe so, but clearly XSLT 2.0 is
    sufficiently general purpose to build unit testing
    harnesses.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T11:45-0500">11:45</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T12:30-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_13" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#13" name=
    "th_13">Automated mass production of XSLT stylesheets</a>

    <p class="description">Using a spreadsheet as a way to
    communicate design requirements and even decisions from
    users to developers and/or straight to the machine. Cute.
    Reminds me of <a href=
    "http://www.advogato.org/person/connolly/diary.html?start=22">
    my own work on using spreadsheets as an RDF authoring
    tool.</a></p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="TENTATIVE">*</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T14:00-0500">14:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T14:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_lb5" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#lb5" name=
    "th_lb5">"Just" Use XML</a>

    <p class="description">His <a href=
    "http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2005/11/17/Just-Use-XML">slides</a>
    have great stuff on pitfalls of XML, unicode, dateTime,
    etc.; filed it under <a rel="tag" href=
    "http://del.icio.us/connolly/quality">quality</a></p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T14:45-0500">14:45</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T15:30-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_21" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#21" name=
    "th_21">A Generalized Grammar for Three-way XML
    Synchronization</a>

    <p class="description">This was much less relevant to
    <a href="http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Diff">our work on
    RDF diff/sync</a> than I thought it might be, but trick of
    using <b>SVG animation to show differences between
    images</b> was really cool.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T16:00-0500">16:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T16:45-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_25" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#25" name=
    "th_25">Using XSL, XForms and UBL together to create
    complex forms with visual fidelity</a>

    <p class="description">I have missed so many chances to
    soak up XForms at a conference... I finally made the time
    for this one, but it turned out to me more about
    XSL-FO.</p>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T16:45-0500">16:45</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T17:30-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_29" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#29" name=
    "th_29">Enterprise-level Web Form Applications with XForms
    and XFDL</a>

    <div class="description">
      <p><a href=
      "http://www.flickr.com/photos/roland/64287365/"><img style="text-align: right"
      src=
      "http://static.flickr.com/25/64287365_a88bb44af8_t.jpg"
      alt="John Boyer at XML2005" /></a> John Boyer is an
      XForms WG co-chair, as well as doing DSig stuff. He's now
      at IBM, since they acquired Pure Edge. Hendler got the
      two of us together in the hall to discuss some connection
      between XForms and SPARQL... something about using XForms
      in the role that XSLT plays in handling SPARQL results.
      Hmm.</p>

      <p>John asked that we "don't think of a Form as just the
      typical name/address or pizza order form"; likewise, he
      asked us to put aside our notion of table. But I didn't
      get a firm feel for what we're supposed to put in thier
      places, except that a form can be a blackjack game.</p>
    </div>
  </li>

  <li class="vevent">
    <abbr class="status" title="CONFIRMED">@</abbr>
    <abbr class="dtstart" title=
    "2005-11-17T20:00-0500">20:00</abbr> <abbr class="dtend"
    title="2005-11-17T21:00-0500">.</abbr> <a class=
    "summary url" id="th_keynote" href=
    "http://2005.xmlconference.org/program/thursday#keynote"
    name="th_keynote">Closing Keynote: Everyone's using XML,
    but does anyone care?</a>

    <p class="description">Very entertaining. On Web services,
    he said <q>we've got this little pea of xml under all these
    layers and only a true xml princess can feel it.</q></p>
  </li>
</ul>